There is no hell, so don't worry about it.
As for your concerns, trust me, you can do
anything you want and although there may be
consequences, none of them will be raining down
from the heavens.
As for your concerns, trust me, you can do
anything you want and although there may be
consequences, none of them will be raining down
from the heavens.
We are aware of many swingers here in Utah that still attend LDS church services regularly, including one woman that is a primary teacher.
There are also many people that send their kids to church, either with neighbors or with other family members.
Their attendance at church certainly doesn't inhibit their ability to be effective swingers, so we have no problem with this- we just figure that if they can reconcile it between themselves, then we're good with it.
There are also many people that send their kids to church, either with neighbors or with other family members.
Their attendance at church certainly doesn't inhibit their ability to be effective swingers, so we have no problem with this- we just figure that if they can reconcile it between themselves, then we're good with it.
My question would be.....if you beleive enough to go to church....and do the rest of the churchy things, then how do you renconcile your faith with your behavior? I am a recovered mormon (clean for over 3 years now!) and the one thing i had a hard time with, was you either believe or you don't, not trying to justify behavior, but just honestly believe. I don't, never did, tried hard to make it make sense to me, but in the end, the holes and hippocracy were more than I could bear. Gave up on it well before we entered the lifestyle.
One just flat out precludes the other. As far as the argument that society has its rules etc...true, but not the same in the facet that religion does. Societal ideals are based on common thinking and practices, they are not purported to be the word of god.
Everybody has a right to live there life whichever way they see fit, but for me, being true to what and who I am and we are as a couple, that is tops, and is the key to true happiness. Pretending to be something one day and something completely different the next day is a sure-fire way to lose your own identity and cause a lot of misery.
But, that is us, how we feel.
People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.--Albert Einstein
One just flat out precludes the other. As far as the argument that society has its rules etc...true, but not the same in the facet that religion does. Societal ideals are based on common thinking and practices, they are not purported to be the word of god.
Everybody has a right to live there life whichever way they see fit, but for me, being true to what and who I am and we are as a couple, that is tops, and is the key to true happiness. Pretending to be something one day and something completely different the next day is a sure-fire way to lose your own identity and cause a lot of misery.
But, that is us, how we feel.
People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.--Albert Einstein
Its a tuff call.....and I think it all is a matter of how u think and feel about it. I think it is a matter of opinion on what u feel is right. You had mentioned a vibrator maybe being in question of right or wrong, I feel that using "toys" is NOT committing adultery, however being a swinger is probably committing adultery whether your spouse knows of it or not....it probably isnt in line with keeping the commandments. I believe Hym4cyn at some point you may have to give up one or the other....swinging or practicing your religion.
We too are members of the LDS faith. We were born and raised in the religion. Myself, (Mrs. Stitch) was raised in a strict religious home where Mr. Stitch was raised in a more relaxed religious atmosphere. Although we are members of the LDS faith we are not practicing members at this time. I guess as far as living the values that religion gives you we do practice that whether we are going to church or not. We are both honest, loving, hard working, giving, respected people that teach our children right from wrong, and about god and prayer but we just do not actively involve ourselves in some of the practices that the church wants from its members, at least not right now.
It is our opinion that this lifestyle and the religion we are apart of can not co-exsist. You cant live this lifestyle and practice the LDS faith fully and until we are both ready to give of ourselves fully then we will just be non active. We do not judge anyone that is in this lifestyle that do choose to also practice their religion fully because it isnt our place to judge them. It is all a matter of opinions, and self respect. Whatever one feels is right, as long as they feel good about it, and as long as they can still respect themselves at the end of the day then that is for them to decide. It is our belief that if you are honest with yourself and god, then it will all work out in the end. To me there are worse things in life that we could be doing then living a lifestyle that we both enjoy TOGETHER and as long as it doesnt come in between our relationship then we will continue to enjoy it, and someday when we decide we are both ready to give it up and live our religion fully then we will do so knowing that we love each other just the same if not more then we did before.
I also agree with Hym4Cyn in that everyone has skeltons in their closets. Everyone has things in life that they do that maybe others wont agree with, or look down upon. We are also discrete about our lifestyle choices to our family and some of our friends not because we are ashamed about it, but because it is just best that they dont know of it, and truthfully we look at it like...it is our PRIVATE business you dont go sharing all your sexual desires/wants/needs to your mother, or some of your friends or business partners. It isnt any of their business. What happens behind close doors is no one else's business unless it needs to be. As I metnioned b4 as long as you can feel good about who you are then thats all that is important.
We too are members of the LDS faith. We were born and raised in the religion. Myself, (Mrs. Stitch) was raised in a strict religious home where Mr. Stitch was raised in a more relaxed religious atmosphere. Although we are members of the LDS faith we are not practicing members at this time. I guess as far as living the values that religion gives you we do practice that whether we are going to church or not. We are both honest, loving, hard working, giving, respected people that teach our children right from wrong, and about god and prayer but we just do not actively involve ourselves in some of the practices that the church wants from its members, at least not right now.
It is our opinion that this lifestyle and the religion we are apart of can not co-exsist. You cant live this lifestyle and practice the LDS faith fully and until we are both ready to give of ourselves fully then we will just be non active. We do not judge anyone that is in this lifestyle that do choose to also practice their religion fully because it isnt our place to judge them. It is all a matter of opinions, and self respect. Whatever one feels is right, as long as they feel good about it, and as long as they can still respect themselves at the end of the day then that is for them to decide. It is our belief that if you are honest with yourself and god, then it will all work out in the end. To me there are worse things in life that we could be doing then living a lifestyle that we both enjoy TOGETHER and as long as it doesnt come in between our relationship then we will continue to enjoy it, and someday when we decide we are both ready to give it up and live our religion fully then we will do so knowing that we love each other just the same if not more then we did before.
I also agree with Hym4Cyn in that everyone has skeltons in their closets. Everyone has things in life that they do that maybe others wont agree with, or look down upon. We are also discrete about our lifestyle choices to our family and some of our friends not because we are ashamed about it, but because it is just best that they dont know of it, and truthfully we look at it like...it is our PRIVATE business you dont go sharing all your sexual desires/wants/needs to your mother, or some of your friends or business partners. It isnt any of their business. What happens behind close doors is no one else's business unless it needs to be. As I metnioned b4 as long as you can feel good about who you are then thats all that is important.
Hmmm, going to hell? Depends on whether or not you actually believe such a place exists (lol)but I assure you if it does you will have PLENTY of company and not just your swinger friends. Do you HONESTLY think that if there is a God he will look more disfavorably on two committed loving adults who just happen to fuck around than on an "honest" businessman who makes a living foreclosing homes on orphans and widows then turns around and goes to the temple every week and preaches Christ-like love during his Sacrament Meeting talk? And I'm sure I don't need to cite all the instances of prominent Utah families (yes even GA's!) with ties to casinos in Wendover, horse racing (yes, betting too) and hell, let's not forget the Marriotts who serve up porn on the TV in each and every room in their hotels. But if you want to get technical...and delve into LDS doctrine...if you are married in the temple, unless you committ murder you WILL go to the Celestial Kingdom (again if there is one) but you will "turned over to the buffettings of Satan" for a season. Fun thread!!!!! :-)
Evil
Evil
This is a topic that should have no influence on what people say. It is what you believe in and what you do outside of that is not everyone's business. If people chose to go to church or not and do this so be it. It should not be an issue otherwise.
That is just what I think!
That is just what I think!
If Catholics can have pedophile priests, Muslims have sexist wife beating terrorists and Baptists racist incestious siblings, then The LDS Church can have swingers. Why not; everyone outside the LDS Church is misled about the mormons all being polygamists anyway. I don't think others' perceptions will change much if you lead a double-life. People are kinda dense that way. <-*Joke* HAHAHA... No... well ahem..
Ultimately, it only matters what you think and feel to be good for you. If you live life for others, then you will not have lived at all. Absorb your environment and mold yourself in a manner that is consistent with your belief system, morals and happiness. You know your own heart and what's right for you.
We believe as long as all human parties are of consenting age and have given consent, nothing is wrong for you sexually. We'll do what the hell we want with our bodies. As I (Don) am not religious in anyway, I don't want to have anything to do with organized religion and all their hypocrisies. This is our stance. Take it for what you will.
-TR-
P.S. If I hurt your religious feelings.... Remember forgiveness :-)
Ultimately, it only matters what you think and feel to be good for you. If you live life for others, then you will not have lived at all. Absorb your environment and mold yourself in a manner that is consistent with your belief system, morals and happiness. You know your own heart and what's right for you.
We believe as long as all human parties are of consenting age and have given consent, nothing is wrong for you sexually. We'll do what the hell we want with our bodies. As I (Don) am not religious in anyway, I don't want to have anything to do with organized religion and all their hypocrisies. This is our stance. Take it for what you will.
-TR-
P.S. If I hurt your religious feelings.... Remember forgiveness :-)
That's exactly what we're trying to say Tequilarose!!!!!
I agree with MikeandSuz. There is no such place as Hell, but there is the hell that some of us create for ourselves. Did God create us, give us free will, and then change his/her mind and decide to punish us for using that same free will? We are not religious, but we are definitely spiritual. After all, spirits having a physical experience is what we are. A jealous, needy, and judgmental God just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, do you really think that God has needs? Does God need us to be a certain way? God is everything, so why would he/she need anything? I believe we are all small individuations of God, and we are all One. We are not seperate from each other, nor seperate from God. We are all the same thing. If everyone realized this, we would not need religion because we would never do anything to harm another. We would be harming ourselves! It is not what you are doing that matters. What matters is what you are being.
If anyone would like to experience something about this subject that finally makes sense, read " Conversations with God, Book One " by Neale Donald Walsch. You may need to read it more than once, and will probably want to.
Having been raised as a mormon, I always took to heart the teachings that "My Father's house has many manisions"
In my humble opinion, even the mormon church has a place in heaven for all of us swingers. The rank and file members may think and treat us differently, but in the end there is a place for all. It is impossible to reconcile the teachings of any religion with the swinger lifestyle, and we each have to make our own peace with that.
Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth
Mr Closer
In my humble opinion, even the mormon church has a place in heaven for all of us swingers. The rank and file members may think and treat us differently, but in the end there is a place for all. It is impossible to reconcile the teachings of any religion with the swinger lifestyle, and we each have to make our own peace with that.
Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth
Mr Closer
Don Quixote wrote " maybe libido is the driving force behind the religious urge. ". lol, touche.
With an East and a West coast transplant who met here in the land of Zion, we've heard endless complaining from other like minded non-LDS friends about how hard it can be to date here, with the clickish exclusionary social swirl surrounding the predominent church. Well libido transcends, and there are no walls nor dogmatic questions posed preventing a fine, active and full life here. And as an earlier post noted, there is always Alta. If that's not heaven, I don't lnow what is.
D
With an East and a West coast transplant who met here in the land of Zion, we've heard endless complaining from other like minded non-LDS friends about how hard it can be to date here, with the clickish exclusionary social swirl surrounding the predominent church. Well libido transcends, and there are no walls nor dogmatic questions posed preventing a fine, active and full life here. And as an earlier post noted, there is always Alta. If that's not heaven, I don't lnow what is.
D
At least you're not a Shaker. Now they had real problems and as of 2006 have only 4 members due to their doctrine of enforced chastity.
http://www.passtheword.org/SHAKER-MANUSCRIPTS/Abstinence/shaker-abst-x1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker
http://www.passtheword.org/SHAKER-MANUSCRIPTS/Abstinence/shaker-abst-x1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker
In a nutshell we can all justify almost anything we do so it is simply a matter of perception. Me being a recovering mormon (going on 6 years now thank you very much) Havent touched a drop of the B.O.M. in ages. I know I can justify my lifestyle. So its all good so umm lets party.
Does it really matter what race, religion, nationality, etc. you are to be in lifestyles? If I am a different faith than those I am with, does that prevent me from enjoying their company? Does it matter what I believe or if I even believe in god to be active in lifestyles? As long as my actions bring no harm or insult to others and I treat those around me with the respect they are do... what I believe and what I do is of no one elses concern. If I am a hyprocrite, let my God be my judge as long as I have done no wrong to anyone else but myself. Why are any of us trying to judge others when we are all somehow guilty by the standards of so many ?
Ever consider that one mans food might be another mans poison?
Okay... take the noose off from around my neck, put out the burning cross in my front yard. I get the point and will shut up.
Ever consider that one mans food might be another mans poison?
Okay... take the noose off from around my neck, put out the burning cross in my front yard. I get the point and will shut up.
Can you say..."spiritual wife"...??
:m
:m
if there is no hell, then there cannot be a heaven, right?
i think the LDS religion is the most accurate of them all.
ive done every bad thing there is to to and i go to church every sunday, why? because i love my creator.
i think the LDS religion is the most accurate of them all.
ive done every bad thing there is to to and i go to church every sunday, why? because i love my creator.
If you go to hell for having fun take your first left as you walk in I have a spot reserved I will be selling popsicles and flip flops name this site and I will give you a 40% discount...LMAO :z :z :z :z
.
.
thats just my opinion, i agree with almost all of the LDS doctrine,
ya its kind of hard going to church, being a liar and all, but oh well. i endulge in all the desires of the flesh i hope heavenly father will forgive me, i dont hope he will i know he will.
ya its kind of hard going to church, being a liar and all, but oh well. i endulge in all the desires of the flesh i hope heavenly father will forgive me, i dont hope he will i know he will.
Every time I see this topic somewhere I wait until there are a number of replys and then put my $ 1.28.7 ( dollar three eighty seven ) into the pot. Religion is a means to control populations. Moral and ethics are dictated by religion and or organized religion first and then government... But lest we forget that organized religion was the government in the early days of the church.. Monogamy is the product of religion and government to make sure of heritage and property rights. BTW this is not simply a Christian practice but many religions do exactly the same thing..
Now, as for the Bible. The Bible is a collection of books and stories that were handed down by word of mouth and then laid down in writing in Sanskrit, and ancient Hebrew and then to a more modern form of Hebrew as well a Ancient Greek.. then a more modern version of Greek. These text were translated by the "Holy" Roman Church and transcribed for humanity and the masses control by monks under papal control. many of the Cannons of the Roman Catholic Church have been more or less adopted by the secular or temporal law, the law of the government. Some things need to be understood about the Bible. IT was written by men translated from dead languages or languages that had changed and it is entirely possible that it was manipulated for the purposes of the Church...
So where does that put us.... We believe what we want to, what we have been programmed to or we modify that programming to allow for us to do what we feel we have a right to do. What we believe will allow us to still live a good life even if it is against the mores and ethics of the church and or the temporal laws. It kind of like going 70 in a 65 MPH zone... We feel we have a right, besides we'll probably not get caught and maybe we just want to see if we will get caught.. Doing things against ones religion is like that to some extent... Maybe God is watching Mary down the street. Maybe I don't believe that my church is right. Maybe heaven and hell are a fabrication of religion to keep us in line... Maybe God was invented by man to explain why things are what they are and why things happen the way they do...
Do we have to reconcile our lives to religious "BELIEFS" or do we live our lives the best way we know. Harm no one if possible. Live life to the fullest, it's too short to play it too safe. Oh and before I forget, someone stated that they love their creator....Isn't that kind of like swinging.... He/She is not our mate. Oh and how about the old testament... All the wives of Solomon and David. How about Isaac... His wife gave him her hand maden and besides if you look at the text... he already had several concubines as did many other biblical figures.... I think maybe we could call them all swingers.....So beat this subject to the ground and in the end it's all up to what you WANT to BELIEVE.
Now, as for the Bible. The Bible is a collection of books and stories that were handed down by word of mouth and then laid down in writing in Sanskrit, and ancient Hebrew and then to a more modern form of Hebrew as well a Ancient Greek.. then a more modern version of Greek. These text were translated by the "Holy" Roman Church and transcribed for humanity and the masses control by monks under papal control. many of the Cannons of the Roman Catholic Church have been more or less adopted by the secular or temporal law, the law of the government. Some things need to be understood about the Bible. IT was written by men translated from dead languages or languages that had changed and it is entirely possible that it was manipulated for the purposes of the Church...
So where does that put us.... We believe what we want to, what we have been programmed to or we modify that programming to allow for us to do what we feel we have a right to do. What we believe will allow us to still live a good life even if it is against the mores and ethics of the church and or the temporal laws. It kind of like going 70 in a 65 MPH zone... We feel we have a right, besides we'll probably not get caught and maybe we just want to see if we will get caught.. Doing things against ones religion is like that to some extent... Maybe God is watching Mary down the street. Maybe I don't believe that my church is right. Maybe heaven and hell are a fabrication of religion to keep us in line... Maybe God was invented by man to explain why things are what they are and why things happen the way they do...
Do we have to reconcile our lives to religious "BELIEFS" or do we live our lives the best way we know. Harm no one if possible. Live life to the fullest, it's too short to play it too safe. Oh and before I forget, someone stated that they love their creator....Isn't that kind of like swinging.... He/She is not our mate. Oh and how about the old testament... All the wives of Solomon and David. How about Isaac... His wife gave him her hand maden and besides if you look at the text... he already had several concubines as did many other biblical figures.... I think maybe we could call them all swingers.....So beat this subject to the ground and in the end it's all up to what you WANT to BELIEVE.
HERES MY ??? WHY DOES IT GOT TO BE ABOUT MORMONS LVBICITYCPL? THERE IS ALOT OF RELIGIONS ON HERE BUT MY THING IS DNT MAKE IT ABOUT 1 RELIGION WHICH U DID IN THE TOPIC HERE......PLEASE THINK B4 U SPEAK CZ I DO HV AN ANSWER 4 UR NEXT REBUTAL.....